Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  59

  Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

  even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

  yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

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  Sea Breeze

  Biblically speaking, there is only one hope for Christians. And that hope is heavenly.

  @Vanderhoven
  

  That is the hope for Christian believers, yes - during the church-age. Paul wrote to be "absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord".

  But during the Millennial Reign, the earth will be populated with Jews and Non-Jews - All Great Tribulation Survivors, and later their children.

  The Judgment of the Nations will be the first Judicial proceedings from King Jesus as he sits on his throne in Jerusalem. It will determine which of the Tribulation Survivors get in and which ones do not.

  Luke 19 27 - But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

  These slain ones will go to hades after they are slain to await the final Judgment at the Great White Throne after the thousand years have ended when there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

  The people who are all good with Jesus being King are allowed to enter his Thousand Year Reign.

  Untimately we all end up in eternity after the Great White Throne Judgment where the entire universe is rolled up like a scroll and the whole universe is recreated again.

  This is the new heavens and new earth referred to several times in scripture.
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  42

  Two new Governing Body members

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jeddoly and rumph???.

  who are they?

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  Sea Breeze

  I wonder how many people he has convinced to "put faith in God' s Victorious Organization" instead of Jesus himself?

  Parasites, just like the Pharisees.
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  56

  Annual Meeting live updates

  by ukpimo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have obtained the live link for the annual meeting tomorrow:.

  annual meeting live link.

  the meeting will begin at 9:45am eastern time, for those of us in the uk, that will be 2:45pm.

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  Sea Breeze

  Change of understanding: The destruction of Babylon the Great will be all countries willingly giving their power over to the united nations to destroy it.

  Does this mean Jehovah's Witnesses will no longer view their Christian neighbors as whores, as in the whore of babylon the great? I'm mean, WT taught for a very long time that church goers were the daughters of the greatest whore of them all - Christendom.

  If Christians are no longer filthy whores, maybe JW's will interact more with them.

  But I do so miss the clairty of the good 'ole days when WT leaders like Knorr and Franz knew who was a harlot and who wasn't.
  
  
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  59

  Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

  even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

  yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

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  Sea Breeze

  I'm sorry aqwsed,

  I quit reading your post after the first sentence. In the video, the pastor said there were over 1800 OT references to the literal Kingdom. Your first sentence ignored this claim and said it primarily came from one Rev. verse.

  Look, I know there are many fine Christians who are Amillennnial. It is not a Salvation issue even though the view is a left-over relic of the Catholic Church.

  Personally, I have a really hard time with what Amillennialist have done. In my opinion, this view opened up a theological hole in the bible so big that it allowed the greatest bible cults of all time to run a freight train through it. People were blindsided.

  
  Because of Amillennialists, The Watchtower was able to make their (twisted) Milllennial views look unique, like they had the truth, since there are so many scriptures that clearly support a literal kingdom. People were stunned by the literal kingdom message that JW's brought to their doors. In other words, victims were left wondering why they had never heard such a message in their church.

  Amillennialists alllowed a path for a bible-cult to wipe out 5 generations of my family. If all churches preached millennialism like they should, the WT COULD NOT exist. So, yeah..... I'm biased big time. I know that. How could I not be? The twisted millennial message of JW's included the elimination of Justification for believers and a return to works-based salvation. And you and I both know where that leaves a person. It leaves them facing the judgment in Hebrews 9: 27 on thier own merits instead of the merits of Jesus.

  The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).
  
  At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled. Israel is already miracuously re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31). They will be converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and fullly restored to the original land boundaries under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually.

  It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9; Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3). Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom.

  There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years.

  Since I left the WT and became a Christian 20 years ago, Jesus has blessed me beyond all my wildest dreams. He has given me everthing I ever wanted and MUCH MORE. I am humbled and my pride has be neutralized by his generosity. Many trials and threats accompanied his generosity as well just like he said they would.
  
  Like a close friend, I want the same for Jesus. I want him to get EVERYTHING he ever wanted. I want to see the entire nation of Israel, cry out to him "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord". I want him to enjoy the honor due him at all the ethnic parties and festivals the Jews have. I want to see them weep crocodile tears in gut-wrenching anguish when they realize what happened to the greatest of their native sons. I want to see all government officials bow to him as King of the Earth as someone who not only has the inheritable legal right, but also as someone who duly purchased the whole mess with his precious, perfect and sinless lamb-like blood.
  
  All this will come to pass in the wrap-up of the GT and the Millennial Kingdom. His Triumphal entry into Jerusalem in preperation of the "Judgment of the Nations" after he neutralizes the Anti-Christ will be awesome. I think and dream about Jesus getting everthing he wants almost every day. It is my greatest desire.

  
  
  
  
  
  
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  59

  Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

  even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

  yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

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  Sea Breeze

  @ aqwsed12345

  The biblical evidence for a literal 1000 yr. reign is overwhelming. Check out the points in this quick 5 minute video by a top US pastor.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgjYuWS0l2U
  
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  164

  How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

  but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

  new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

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  Sea Breeze

  Faulty premise in your OP question. The Watchtower is a satanic cess-pool of lies that robs people of the destiny that was bought for them on the cross.

  The biblical promise of Justification has been denied to it's members at least since 1938:

  "the other sheep are... not... even justified" Watchtower 1938 p. 104-105
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  59

  Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

  even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

  yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Does that mean they believe there are two groups of believers, one that rules with Christ as kings and priests in heaven, and the other that lives as subjects of the kingdom in paradise on earth? Because that’s what I’m talking about.

  @SBF

  Yes, but theologians wouldn't put it like that. The apostles and the early Christian leaders all taught a literal 1000 yr. Kingdom Reign on earth populated by the survivors of the GT in the flesh, who still retain their sin nature, but will have extended life-spans like in the days of Noah.

  This was one of the primary reasons I stopped viewing the WT as unique. A lady pointed this out to me in field service, that hundreds of millions of non-WT afiliated Christians believe same a JW's.... they just don't believe that the change has taken place yet, while the WT claims the change took place in 1914.

  The problem you are having is that you are thinking in terms of destination (heaven vs. earth) to try and make sense of scriptures. That is a Watchtower trick. The proper way to view the differences is through the passage of time. By viewing scriptures on the proper time-line, they all work togher perfectly.

  
  

  What the Watchtower did was use time distortion to create a whole new heretical religion by highlighting scriptures (ad infinitum) that referred to believers in the final part of the GT & the Millennial Reign. They did this while convincing gullible uneducated members that the Church Age had ended in 1914.

  Now, just getting end times stuff wrong won't damn a person. But, what WT did was then use their phony (invisible) 2nd Coming as an excuse to reject the New Covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" described in Mt. 26: 27-28 ; and that will damn a person because there is simply no such thing as a Christian outside of the NC. The contractural blood-covering is what makes a person a Christian.

  Remember: the New Covenant is "for the forgiveness of sins", not only ruling positions in heaven. By highlighting destination over time-passage (dispensation), the Watchtower created the illusion of a two group salvation. In reality, man has always been saved by grace through faith regardless of the dispensation of time they lived in. So, because of this - there is really only one group of people who get saved, not two, 4 or 7. That one group is simply people who believe God. How God relates to man changed through the dispensations; some of the plans for believers in various dispensations have been adjusted - but how we get saved has been the same since the Fall.
  

  Ephesians 2:8-9

  
  

  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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  59

  Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

  even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

  yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Sea Breeze

  This is really NOT really news. Two-thirds of Evangelicals are Millinial, as opposed to Amillinial. Amillinialism started with Augistine in the early 400's.

  The early church leaders trained by the apostles were all Millinial. For those of you that don't know: Millinial means you believe in an literal earthy 1000 yr. reign of Christ.

  Amillinial means you think this age or time period is symbolic. This is the view of the RCC and several other big name demoninational churches.
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  135

  Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  say it ain’t so!

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  in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

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  Sea Breeze

  With 25K members partaking and counting, I wouldn't bet against it.
  
  
  
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  36

  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

  by jwundubbed in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.

  i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.

  then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.

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  Sea Breeze

  @Jeffro
  
  

  chemical reactions in biological systems happen every second of every day without any need of magical sky friends.

  So you change your point on functionality which you can't possibly logically defend to self-replication, which you imagine that you can. Yet, to self-replicate, you need all the functionality that you just dismissed with the wave of your hand!

  Very illogical.